Friday, April 22, 2005

Forget Warren - what are you doing?

Amidst the controversy on this blog and over at inthefight I am reminded of what D.L. Moody once supposedly asked a critic: "And what is it you are doing to evangelize the world."

Nothing. That was, apparently, her reply.

To which Moody was to have said, "I like my way of doing things better than your way of not doing things."

Evangelistically and on the front edges of human compassion - what is it you are doing? By His grace, how is His love flowing through you?

72 Comments:

At 1:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shall we boast of ourselves? Really.You are tempting us to proclaim our own glory.Brothers,do not fall for it.

 
At 2:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I seriously doubt D.L. Moody would attack his name to Rick Warren so lay off the quotes.Are you wanting us to lay off our accusations because Warren has impressed you?Your post obviously accuses us of doing nothing so we shouldn't insult the Great Rick Warren. Careful.

 
At 3:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jesus's first act of ministry was found in Matthew 4:17

"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand."

What I see in the CGM is not to much "preaching" of "repenting" and more of "what do we feel like doing" that won't "offend".

Words like "Repent" seem to "offend" the "church".

There would be no "church" without the word "repent" being spoken, and then the hearer "turning away from sin".

I would venture to say if Jesus walked into the midst of some of the RW "churches" he wouldn't be invited to any "small groups".

 
At 3:20 PM, Blogger DON said...

I also see Mr. Friedmans post as " baiting " Christians ... as if to say... ok... so Rick warren is promoting a false gospel and false teaching, but at least his little feet are moving.

I dont see evidence of Paul commending Hymaenus or Phialeutus for their " love or copmpassion" in false ministry... Paul said ..they were ( with their false teachings ) overthrowing the faith of some..and Paul condemned them ..and by Name !!!!

This whole psychobabble idea that " if you are compassionate " even though in error, error ..then your error is to be honored ..is just another symptom of the same relativistic disease...relativism and compromise are Rick Warren attributes, and sadly, those of new evangelical doctrinally dismissive supporters....

Neither will I boast of myself...
Mr. Friedman ..your pompousity in defense of false teaching is quite unseemly.

 
At 3:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is not about what I'm doing or not doing for Jesus Christ. You're straying from the issue. This is about exposing false teachers and false beliefs. All throughout the New Testament you find Paul, Titus, Peter and Jude warning against false teachers. Apparently, it was a serious and important issue then, and it should be today!

 
At 3:51 PM, Anonymous Paul Proctor said...

What do you mean "Forget Warren?"

You write an article promoting him for Agape Press (as if he needed any more promoting); then ask your readers what they think; then, when you are soundly rebuked by the VAST MAJORITY of them, you quickly change the subject in all your embarrassment and humiliation and ask us to compare ourselves to one another!!!???

There's nothing biblical about that!!!

NONE of your 3 (at last count) favorable responders at the other forum even used the Word of God in their responses to your Warren piece, but instead focused on everything else; and ended up posting nothing but pure mush; Laodicean Stew, is what I would call it.

Be careful what you ask for Matt; because, as you have learned here today, you may not like the answers you get.

 
At 3:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, I don't know R.Warren personally, so I don't know his spiritual state but when seen on t.v. interviews, he never seems to claim any type of salvation. With that said, actions speak louder than words. His message is so generic, it leaves one to just draw your own human conclutions on who and what God really is and how to find him. It seems the Bible isn't enough anymore.I suppose if I don't like what that says, I can just read the Message, at least I won't be offended by that!

 
At 4:22 PM, Blogger Threefold Cord said...

It was an introspective, rhetorical question...meaning that we should examine our own lives first.

Since he asked...I have washed, bathed, changed, fed, soothed and nurtured the next generation. I have home-educated the next line of warriors. I have washed and cleaned my home and made lunch and supper. I have sincerely loved and served my own dear husband. I have been a faithful daughter. I have visited and encouraged two sisters in the faith who have newborns, and delivered the evening meal to them. I have counseled a new believer. Lest it is seen as boasting, everything that I am enabled to accomplish is through the mercy and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is he alone who gives me every breath I take and He alone gets all praise, forever.

Matt himself spent time at an abortion clinic, and helped save the life of an unborn child. Praise God! and peace to you all.

 
At 4:32 PM, Blogger steve hulshizer said...

The idea that one can justify what he does by the lack of others doing anything is purely human wisdom. The standard is not what others are doing, or not doing, but "what saith the Scriptures."

We live in an age of posterity and comfort, and many are inactive, but this does not justify doing what is “right in their own eyes” but those who are “doing something.”

Steve Hulshizer

 
At 4:41 PM, Anonymous here is sin, righteous and judgment preached to a sinful world. we will not enter into God's Kingdom said...

Where are sin, righteousness and Judgement preached to a sinful world.We are not able to enter His Kingdom and escape the wrath to come without recognising we are all sinners and in desperate need of a Saviour.Rich Warren is leading a multitude of ignorant folk in hellfire.

 
At 4:47 PM, Anonymous Brian said...

Dear Brethren,

I would like to caution all of us in our zeal. We must be careful as we wrestle not against flesh and blood. Please remember that Barnabas and Peter got carried away by faulty men and their doctrine. In labeling Rick a heretic we come close to judging the law. He may be walking near the way of Balaam; but we still must be careful. Even Micheal the Arch-angel did not bring a railing accusation against Satan. There is a false way on the flipside as well. Talk to Job's three friends. Always, always be careful. We don't need to accuse as Satan does or judge, that is God's job. We must however point out half truths and subtle ways of the true wolf..Satan. Matt, to answer your question on what are we doing? I hesitate to do this because you speak like(we all have this tendency) Zophar and Job's other friends and God was not happy with Job's response but I will engadge in this folly. I get made fun of at work for listening to BBN in my truck. I get teased for leaving the room when men begin their sexual discourse. Men holler at me and ask me if I want to go drinking with them on friday nights. They call me preacher and are always testing me. I went to witness to one the other day and he said,"Don't shove your religion down my throat and I won't shove my drinking ways down yours. One man thankfuly has now been saved and baptised and I am discipling him; but he is still having a hard time being intimidated by his other friends so pray for him. This is not my work though and I tremble mentioning this because I am a man with like passions as these guys. I should be tearing my clothes just for mentioning this. I pray God will be merciful to me. Don't trust in grand works Matt. Remember Matthew 7:22.

To the glory of God alone,

Brian John 5:44

P.S-Some of you other guys could you deal a little more mercifully with our brother? I once had opinions much like him and by the prayer of others and graciousness of men like Dan Lucarini they have helped me see some of these blind spots. I would also like to trumpet a good web page www.a1m.org

 
At 5:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is amazing to me how many Christians, and I use the term loosely ascribe themselves to the great Warren. When I have brought to their attention the problems of the 99% truth. I was rebuked. So it does not surprise me anymore when so many are into the feel good theology the Mr. WARREN SUPPOSES. RESEARCH THIS MAN'S BACKGROUND. It is clear his gospel is steeped in new age theology. It compromises enough to be heresy, It is true enough for weak Christians to accept.
Bottom line is our allegiance is to Christ and the ministry of the word.
I lived in Rancho Santa Margarita where Saddleback resides. Every person there I came in contact with from saddleback was a very weak example if a Christian at all.
The World is so close to the end. I now see that a religious group under the gise of Christianity is going to go to extremes, I think I see how this false religious riuler will rise, The "Christians" will run him into power by getting rid of the problems of the world. Once again like in Samuel, the people wanted a king instead of an invisible God.
When will Christians stop chasing the whirlwind of new theology.
WHEN THEY START PICKING UP THE WORD OF GOD AND PRAY FOR REPENTANCE.
There is a blindness that pervades even those who have some light...this is truly the last days.

 
At 5:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"We must not suppose that if we succeeded in making everyone nice we should have saved their souls. A world of nice people, content in their own niceness, looking no further, turned away from God, would be just as desperately in need of salvation as a miserable world." (C.S. Lewis)

Are you born again by the Holy Spirit of God alone? Do you examine yourself? Are you in the faith? Do you fail the test? 2 Corinthians 13:5-6 Does the wrath of God still abide upon you? It is a FEARFUL thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Do you fear God alone? Do you work out your own salvation with fear and trembling? Do you shudder at the rustling of the leaves outside your bedroom window on a still damp dark moonless night?

What am I doing?

Preaching the Gospel, something Rick Warren does NOT do, he preaches and teaches another gospel which is no gospel at all. He denigrates the nature and character of the God who is. The God who is thrice times holy! Now THAT is something to be concerned about. True?

The Whole Gospel for the Whole Man
We must have the full message. . . 'deliver the whole counsel of God'. . . . It starts with the Law. The Law of God ... the demands of a righteous God, the wrath of God. That is the way to bring men and women to conviction; not by modifying the Truth.... We must confront them with the fact that they are men and that they are fallible men, that they are dying men, that they are sinful men, and that they will all have to stand before God at the Bar of Eternal Judgement....And then we must present to them the full-orbed doctrine of the Grace of God in Salvation in Jesus Christ. We must show that no man is saved 'by the deeds of the Law', by his own goodness or righteousness, or church membership or anything else, but solely, utterly, entirely by the free gift of God in Jesus Christ His Son. . . . We must preach the full-orbed doctrine leaving nothing out-conviction of sin, the reality of Judgement and Hell, free grace, justification, sanctification, glorification. We must also show that there is a world view in the Bible ... that here alone you can understand history-past history, present history, future history. Let us show this great world view, andGod's Eternal purpose.... Let us at the same time be very careful that we are giving it to the whole man ... the gospel is not only for a man's heart, that you start with his head and present Truth to it.... Let us show that it is a great message given by God which we in turn pass on to the mind, to the heart, to the will. There is ever this danger of leaving out some part or other of man's personality.... Let us be certain that we address the whole man-his mind, his emotions and his will. ~ Martyn Lloyd Jones (The Weapons of our Warfare, pp. 21-2)

Psalm 19

Douglas
misterdarkriver@yahoo.com

 
At 5:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"We don't need to accuse as Satan does or judge, that is God's job."

Sir, we ARE to judge. Not by outward appearances but judge a righteous judgment. John 7:24

"God has not deserted his Church; he has brought her through even darker hours than those which try our courage now, yet the darkest hour has always come before the dawn. We have today the entrance of paganism into the Church in the name of Christianity. But in the second century a similar battle was fought and won. And another Reformation in God's good time will come."
- J. Gresham Machen, 1923

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
- Col 2:8

Divisions and separations are most objectionable in religion. They weaken the cause of true Christianity ...But before we blame people for them, we must be careful that we lay the blame where it is deserved. False doctrine and heresy are even worse than schism. If people separate themselves from teaching that is positively false and unscriptural, they ought to be praised rather than reproved. In such cases separation is a virtue and not a sin. ~ J.C. RYLE

"If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed. Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives' tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come."
- 1 Tim 4:6-8

"A man's most valuable trait is a judicious sense of what not to believe."
- Euripides

For those of you who see little value in pointing out theological error, consider that according to the Scripture, the Goal of Exposing Bad Doctrine is love:

"As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines, nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith. But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith."
- 1 Tim 1:3-5

Men today do not, perhaps, burn the Bible, nor does the Roman Catholic Church any longer put it on the Index, as it once did. But men destroy it in the form of exegesis: they destroy it in the way they deal with it. They destroy it by not reading it as written in normal, literary form, by ignoring its historical-grammatical exegesis, by changing the Bible's own perspective of itself as propositional revelation in space and time, in history....
- Francis Schaeffer,
Death in the City [1969]

"Compare the Old Testament day of Atonement. Aaron wore only the names of the 12 tribes of Israel on his shoulders and breast as he stood before God. The blood shed on the altar and then sprinkled on the mercy seat was not for the heathen nations but only for the nation of Israel. Just as the High Priest carried the names of the tribes on his shoulder and heart as he stood before God on the Day of Atonement, so our High Priest had our names on his shoulders and heart as He endured God's wrath, went into the tomb, and when He ascended into heaven. He breathes our individual names to the Father and even me!"
- John G. Reisinger

"Bad theology will eventually hurt people and dishonor God in proportion to its badness." - John Piper (A Godward Life Volume Two, pg. 377)


Heresy Hunting:

Exposing Doctrinal Errors: Heresy Hunting or Biblical Mandate?
http://www.equip.org/free/CP0601.htm

I pray to God that God opens Rick Warren's eyes to the deception he is so embedded in. It is tragic that he is leading millions upon millions of people astray. No light matter, very serious indeed.

If anyone is getting saved through what Rick Warren is doing it will be in spite of what he is doing. Maybe the best thing happening is that it is driving people back to the Scriptures to study Warren's words and see if they line up with what the Bible says and they discover Warren's errors for themselves and the Holy Spirit then guides them into all truth.

Douglas
misterdarkriver@yahoo.com

 
At 5:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You want a true presentation of the gospel visit livingwaters.com and listen to Hell's Best Kept Secret for free.

 
At 5:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's been my experience that if the majority are for it then it can't be good for Christians. In fact the Bible tells us that the truth will not be popular. And I know that whenever I point out the Bible's teaching on certain subjects people get downright unpleasant and call me judgemental. Thus I conclude that there's a very good chance Warren's very popular books and philosophy, which the masses go for, can't be right. I mean if the unsaved are having him on their TV programs and being nice to him there's a problem.

 
At 6:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tell everyone you know RUN DON't WALK AWAY FROM THE PURPOSE DRIVEN CHURCH, the purpose driven church will lead you STRAIGHT TO HELL. Read more here>>>>>>

Jesus Said, " If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, thereforte the world hateth you." John 15:19

This tells me that anything that continues to grow in popularity should be suspect.

Faith without works is dead. James 2:26

This tells me to be highly suspect about a movement that produces dead faith?

Jesus said, Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you: for so did their fathers to the false prophets. Luke 6:26

The "Purpose Driven Live" listed on the NY Times best seller list as was "The Da Vinci Code are in my view poor measures of excellence, and are both fine examples of false phrophicies.

 
At 6:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If Dr. Matthew Friedeman want us to forget about what Rick Warren is doing, we did he publish an article in Agape Press promoting him?


I just forwarded this letter to a lady in Canada where 65 more people were ousted for opposing Rick Warren.


Dear Sister Carol,

Well I hope they do go public for reasons cited in my parable below. Carol, perhaps you could ask Jerry if he might forward this to a number of those individuals and/or print this to give or mail to them? I hope I proved that we are biblically mandated to expose the deeds of darkness and mark those teachers and churches.

Thanks!!
Blessings,

James

And here is an open letter to responding to Dr. Matthew Friedman's defense of Rick Warren.


Dear Dr. Matthew Friedman,

I heard about your radio show and article you wrote published on Agape Press which defends the teachings of Rick Warren. In light of the following, I hope you reconsider.

Before I proceed, I would like to comment on your April 21 article. You mention that "purpose-dirven church that wins thousands to Christ." I think it would be illuminating to ask the question "which Christ" or "which Jesus? or "which Gospel?" Is this gospel of Christ ased on Rick Warren's mentor, Dr. Robert Schuler whose definition of sin is lack of self-esteem? Do you mean the gospel presented by Rick Warren in his recent Ladies Home Journal column. In this regard, I humbly invite you to read Paul Proctor's commentary on Rick Warren's March 2005 article in the Ladies Home Journal. http://www.newswithviews.com/PaulProctor/proctor66.htm. You also state "Despise him? Only if you are jealous." But we shouldn't as Christians despise him even if we were jealous, and I am certainly not jealous, as I fear for him and grieve. You further state that Rick Warren "is eager to share his secrets". But there shouldn't be any secrets, as Sola Scriptures reveals EVERYTHING we need for justification and sanctification...there is no closing the gap. Paul tells us everything is revealed that we presently need to know. Secrecy is the heart of Mystery Babylon, Mysticism, and Rick Warren's Carl Jung Personality Profiling in his SHAPE Program in which these so-called secrets were revealed to a spirit-guide named Philemon. And what are some of Warren's other secrets? His training manual on who to get rid of what he calls "resisters" and "pillars" in the church? Below is a factual account of the fruit of these so-called secrets. Are some of Rick Warren's secrets: "to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan's so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): Only hold on to what you have until I come"? See Revelation 2:18-29. Is one of his secrets to call for churches and small groups to adopt villages where lack of spiritual leadership has kept people from know the abundant life God wants for them? This is not a new idea, nor is it a secret. The New Testament is saturated with these instructions and the history of the church of full of it. Christians are not taking "Warren to taks for sliding into the abyss of the social gospel" but because his teachings are not Scriptural. This is what Rick Warren should lose sleep over! You further state that Rick Warren is "equipping the saints assisting the downtrodden and disenfhransed." So the the list below of Christians being purpose driven out of their churches are examples of ministering to the downtrodded and disenfranshed? Is forcing unbiblical convenants on his members...a Pharisee's dream, ministering and equipping the saints? And where is the place for all of the ousted Christians in Rick Warren's PEACE Plan?


A few days ago, I was a guest on VYC America's Crosstalk discussing my book Who's Driving the Purpose Driven Church? in which callers all over the country were calling in who had been ousted or marginalized in their church for questioning or opposing Purpose Driven Life book and campaign. One senior saint from Texas called in and was very upset about a recent Baptist Standard newsletter in which an opponent of Rick Warren was severely maligned. It was indeed very representative of the thousands of calls or emails that VCY America had gotten when Warren Smith was a guest regarding his book Deceived On Purpose. I have been researching Rick Warren's teachings for several thousand hours and several years. So, in this regard, I invite you to consider and be apprised of the following updates on the fruit of Rick Warren's teachings and how he has trained pastors and churches to deal with what he calls "resisters"....most of the media and even Christian media gives Rick Warren a free pass on his teachings.

The following factual events, are but the tip of the iceberg. I invite you to consider and be apprised of the following:

SPIRITUAL EUTHANASIA

A PARABLE OF THE PURPOSE DRIVEN CHURCH

PURPOSE DRIVEN CHRISTIANITY....A WAY THAT SEEMS RIGHT UNTO MAN, OR WHO'S END IS DESTRUCTION?

"First they came for “resisters” and “pillars” of Brunswick Reformed Church, Brunswick, Ohio

because they opposed Purpose Driven Life and Church, but I didn't speak up because I was not a member of Reformed Church of American (RCA) denomination.

Then they came after a lady who was an elder lady in the faith who had been with the First Baptist Church of Dallas, Texas since 1956 by shouting her down with spiritual euthanasia and aggressive mean-spirited behavior, and the intimidation of seven attorneys, because she opposed them turning their landmark Criswell Center into a Purpose Driven entertainment center. But I did not speak up because I was not a widow.

Then they held a trial for two families at Valley Baptist Church in Lakeland, Minnesota, but I didn't speak up because I was not a member of the General Baptist Convention.

Then they came after 165 members of Gardendale Baptist Church, Corpus Christi, Texas and ran them out of the church, but I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Southern Baptist.

Then a brother did finally speak up and tried to warn Eugene Christian Fellowship because they had gone Purpose Driven, but they threatened legal action and told him to stop spamming them. But I did not speak up for fear of being accused of spamming or being sued by a church.

Then a news reporter for a large Christian radio network sounded the alarm on His Holy Hill of this clear and present danger. They ran the story, but received more gnashing of teeth from callers then they had ever had, so they censored this story from their Agape Press print media news service.

Then still another brother on another Christian radio ministry broadcast testimonies of Christians thrown out of their churches across the country, but the network threatened to remove his show from the air, if another broadcast was ever made that said anything bad about Rick Warren. But I did not speak up because I had friends and family who were either employed by an organization that promoted Purpose Driven Church, or were in Purpose Driven Church, and I did not want to lose those relationships.

Then they came after a large group of members at New Hope Church in Bend, Oregon. But I didn't speak up because I wasn't a member of The Evangelical Church denomination or the National Association of Evangelicals.

Then they came after a carpenter and his wife at Calvary Community Church in Phoenix, Arizona with the police and a sheriff and escorted him out of the church and off of the grounds for trying to expose the deeds of darkness and the teachings of Rick Warren, telling him that if he returned, he would be arrested. But I didn't speak up because I wasn't a member of the Calvary Chapel denomination.

Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me, because every church in the nation had become Purpose Driven and part of his Global PEACE Plan."

Compiled and Adapted by James Sundquist

Based on Rev. Martin Neimoeller's Poem below written in 1945

(c)2005 Rock Salt Publishing Used by Permission

"In Germany, the Nazis first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists, but I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics, but I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak for me."

(Rev. Martin Neimoeller, German Lutheran Pastor. Rev. Neimoeller was arrested by the Gestapo for opposing Hitler and was sent to Dachau in 1938. He was freed by Allied forces in 1945.)

“Spiritual Euthanasia” Footnotes:

1. Pastor Dave Hawk, Brunswick Reformed Church, Brunswick, Ohio website: www.b-r-c.org. Incidents occurred with Susan Anderson April-June 2001. Testimony reconfirmed by email from Susan Anderson 3/11/2005.2.

2. Confirmed by the testimony of Betty Erwin on Southwest Radio Church archived broadcast: March 1, 2005, see and hear at: http://www.swrc.com/broadcasts/2005/march.htm and by 11/07, 11/11, 11/24, 2004 and 1/6 2005 letters by Betty Erwin to Mr. & Mrs. Brunson and another former pastor at Dallas First Baptist Church, and telephone interview March 2005.

3. Pastor Rev. Timothy S Magnuson,Valley Baptist Church in Lakeland, Minnesota. Tel 651-436-5278.

Verified by letters from church and the families of Keith Thompson and Charles Thompson.

Centered around October 22, 2002

4. Pastor Micah Davison, Gardendale Baptist Church, Corpus Christi, Texas. Gardendale Baptist Church

5633 S Staples St., Corpus Christi, TX 78411-4646 Phone: (361) 991-0285. Website:http://www.gardendale.org/.

165 members ousted on July 21, 2004:

Source: http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?ID=18997, and Corpus Christi Times: Margaret Neu
Information Services Editor, Corpus Christi Caller-Times, P. O. Box 9136, Corpus Christi, TX 78469
neum@caller.com 361-886-4312


Testimonies of ousted members Piedad Ymbert, B.J. Moore, Grady Jackson, available on September 2004 archived realaudio files on Southwest Radio Church at swrc.com, archived, September 2004 at: http://www.swrc.com/broadcasts/2003/september.htm, and letters, Rick Hudson emails and telephone interviews, September/October 2004.

Sundquist, James. Who's Driving the Purpose Driven Church? Bible Belt Publishing, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. 2004. pp. 193-194. Website: http://www.swrc.com and http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/False-Teachers.html

5. Pastor Gary Clark, Eugene Christian Fellowship, 89780 N. Game Farm Rd.,Eugene, OR 97408
541-344-3380. Website: http://www.ecf.org/Content/ContentCT.asp?P=22

Confirmed in letters from and correspondence with Eugene Christian Fellowship leaders: Tim Reich, Executive Pastor Jonathan Hatmaker, Discovery 301 Class (SHAPE), Mark Harpham, November 11-19, 2004

6. American Family Radio News, 107 Parkgate Dr. Tupelo, MS 38801. (662) 844-8888 Radio news segment ran February 15, 2005.www.afr.net

7. Source: Regarding Watchman on the Wall radio show....Prophetic Observer, February and March Issues, Southwest Radio Church. Southwest Radio Church, PO Box 100, Bethany, OK 73008
WATS Line: 800-652-1144, Local Phone: 405-789-1222, FAX: 405-787-2589, Email: info@swrc.com

8. Sr. Pastor Randy Myers, New Hope Church, 20080 Pinebrook Blvd., Bend, Oregon 97702. Tel (541)389-3436 20080. Website: http://www.newhopeonline.net Correspondence with Pastors Josh Conn (2/03/2005-2/23/2005 and William Vermillion, The Evangelical Church denomination, an NAE affiliate: 2/26/2005-3/12/2005

9. Pastor Mark Martin, Calvary Community Church, 12612 N. Black Canyon Hwy.,Phoenix, Arizona 85029. Tel. Phone: (602) 973-4768. Toll Free: (888) 970-3030. Email Address: calvary@calvaryphx.com. Website: http://www.netministries.org/see/churches.exe/ch19442

Testimony of Bear Frankson based on events since July 2004. Taped interview: 2/18/2005.

****************

For further information on Rick Warren's teaching, I invite you to consider my book Who's Driving the Purpose Driven Church? at amazon.com which is published by Southwest Radio Church and available there too at swrc.com

Here is Chapter 11 of my book which proves that Warren's SHAPE Discovery 301 Class and questionnaire is embedded with Carl Jung's teachings, compulsory for members of Saddleback Church:

PERSONALITY PROFILING
http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/James/personality-profiling.html


Kindest regards in Christ,

James Sundquist
Director
Rock Salt Publishing
http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/False-Teachers.html

 
At 6:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Isaiah 66:5
"Hear the word of the Lord, you who tremble at His word: "Your brethren who hate you and cast you out for my name's sake have said, "Let the Lord be glorified, that we may see your joy'; but it is THEY who shall be put to shame.

Rick Warren will be put to shame.

 
At 6:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear CGM disciples, I just checked Matthew 16 and couldn't find Rick Warrens name. I must have a translation from the church of the worthless purpose!

 
At 6:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sir, the problem here is embracing an unscriptural method as a means to an end. Jesus never compromised His message, never wavered, never made people feel really good about themselves. He didn't care if they liked Him or had a great self-esteem. In fact He told us to die to self.

As Paul rebuked the fortune-teller, though she said all the right things, so should we rebuke anyone or anything that has just enough truth to tickle the ears but not enough to save the soul.

The blanket acceptance of the same is exactly why the antichrist will be followed and rise to power. We are seeing the foundation laid for the son of perdition to stand firmly upon.

Be careful.

 
At 6:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Confronting popular heresies such as is contained in the Rick Warren Purpose Drivel product line which preaches ANOTHER gospel.

 
At 7:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

1 Timothy 5:19-21 KJV
"Against an elder recieve not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality."

I think the accusation of heresy has been brought out into the light by scripture and it has been done by more than two or three witnesses, so the rebuke that has been taking place before even today of this type of teaching is scriptural and without partiality.

I am thankful to still see men and women of God, not fear a man and his followers and his teaching.

 
At 7:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I recently went to an Anne Graham Lotz Revival where she spoke
the true Gospel.

Many women there were praising Rick
Warren. I asked if he ever spoke of
repentance. Everyone got a puzzled
look on their faces and said, no
I can't remember that.

Hello, beloved wake up, this man
will lead you straight to Hell.
Christine Yee

 
At 8:29 PM, Anonymous tom montali said...

To: Matt Freidman

Re: Moody; "What are you doing to evangelize the world?"

A better question would be:

"What are you doing, like Rick Warren, to deceive the world?

 
At 8:38 PM, Anonymous Gentle Shepherd Ministries said...

The apostate church of today is a "full soul that loathes the honeycomb" Proverbs 27:7a. Full of pride, self-love, cheap grace, false doctrines. Full of arrogance, self-serving causes and agendas with Christ merely tacked on. Full of covetousness, full of the world, lusting for pleasure. Loathing the Truth, repudiating reality, rebelling against self-denial, despising cross bearing, and scornful of obedience to the Lord of Glory. The latest purpose-drive "fad" is just another "wind of doctrine" or "doctrine of demons" that brainwashes itching ears with "another Jesus, another spirit and another gospel." (2 Cor. 11:4) Jesus repeatedly warned us concerning wolves in sheep's clothing. Did not the Apostle Paul warn of such in his letter to the Galatians, calling them accursed? The apostate, man-exalting church is foolish, lacking the fear of God, humility, integrity, character and the mind of Christ. The very character of God has been perverted by these false gospels, so that the people no longer worship in "spirit and truth." This is the wickedness of idolatry which will result in the judgment of God. (Jude 15, 16).

 
At 8:39 PM, Anonymous Joel Watson said...

I can feel the Love of God "flowing through me" to these great saints of God that are standing up against Rick Warren and his New Age apostate church. Some of you younger Christians will find these words to be harsh, but you must learn that there's nothing "lovely" about sin. Sola Scriptura, Solus Christus, Sola Gratia, Sola Fide, Soli Deo Gloria! (Scripture Alone, Christ Alone, Grace Alone, Faith Alone, Glory to God Alone!)

 
At 8:49 PM, Blogger xxx917 said...

Is there a particular virtue in being apparently incapable of writing with grammatical correctness?

As Joel said, "There's nothing lovely about sin." Or being illiterate.

 
At 9:20 PM, Anonymous illiterate said...

I can feel the love! :) Now let's stay on track. Thank you Paul Proctor and Jim Sundquist for your hard work. I Cor 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

 
At 9:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Threefold Cord who posted above.

Pr 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

It is wonderful that you have done the things you wrote about, to God be the glory. I clicked on your blogpage where I find posted your astrological sign and your Chinese horsocope year. I recommend you not go there. If you chose to include that on your webpage (vs. someone else inserting it), repent and turn away from any pagan practices. Take it from someone who was delivered out of the occult.

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Anais Nin doesn't belong in a book Rick Warren says he wrote for Christians just like astrology doesn't belong on a Christian's webpage. Please reconsider.

 
At 11:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Book is rubbish, and people who read it will be spoon fed another gospel. The true gospel of Jesus Christ is not presented in Rick Warren's book. P.D.L. is just another tool for the apostasy that is in full swing, and the LORD our GOD is grieved. COME LORD JESUS.
1 THES 4:16-18

 
At 11:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't help but feel bad for Dr. Friedman after all of these comments.

But, then again, what am I thinking? He started all this with his very own pen, so to speak.

My crazy statement for the day (which no one will agree with): If only everybody worked independently, individually, or in small numbers -- being dependent on God alone and not other men -- God's work would be accomplished with a bit more precision and accuracy.

 
At 12:11 AM, Anonymous Bible Believer said...

crazy statement indeed,


"being dependent on God alone and not other men"


What Bible do you read?


Pro 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.


1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.


God had ONE man in mind there to follow, didn't he?


Do we see Humpback, Saddlesore, R Warren FOLLOWING, DOING, or even REPEATING what Paul Wrote, or did?


NO we don't!


T'would be a whole 'nuther CHURCH if men OBEYED the COMMAND and DID what Paul did, which was to know NOTHING among men 'cept Christ and Him Cruciofied!


1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.


Under one of the WORST governments KNOWN to man, ROME, Paul

***NEVER***

Preached politics,


He preached CHRIST and HIM CRUCIFIED,


Today one can't get away from the preaching of men's FILTHY POLITICS!


'american-ianity' I think it's called!


In His Service,
Craig, aka, 'PreachIt

 
At 6:57 AM, Blogger Steve Wetzel MTTU.COM said...

I would venture that mostly women would defend Warren's "kinder, gentler, more compassionate" brand of Christianity. It is in their nature to do so.

*MEN* on the other hand, were created to be WARRIORS. We do battle, clash swords and defend the faith. This is why men are pastors, and not women.

Sadly, Rick Warren is typical of the "feminized" American man - soft, non-confrontational, and loves to sing "kumbaya" around the campfire.

Lost is the actual mechanism for people to realize they actually need the Savior - the recognition that they are sinners, and bound for Hell.

 
At 7:15 AM, Blogger Threefold Cord said...

Really, you found zodiac signs? I have only been to my profile page once, to set it up initially. I didn't bother to take off the pre programmed package that comes with blogger. I don't even know what my zodiac sign is. I don't even know how to take that off! Ease up.

 
At 7:18 AM, Blogger Marsha said...

Read 2 Corinthians 10:12-18

 
At 7:48 AM, Anonymous Janice said...

Janice said...
Simply said - yes, he's done alot for church building but the hard-core truth is it's not God's Gospel he's preaching and spreading, but a worldy, watered-down ecumenical one that doesn't call people to repent. He calls them to social groups. Period.

And as far as the 'are you jealous?' comment - never of a wolf in sheep's clothing. Why would I envy his fame & fortune? It's alot more important to him than say - oh, let's see-saying something to benefit Terri Shiavo and her families' struggles last month. Not a peep! I never hear a peep about homosexual lifestyles or abortion -he just sits on the fence on all the hard issues or quietly retreats - in the bank.

I don't need to join a huge church in order to have 'purpose'. Besides God's calling to be a mother, God knows that I have done and continue to do plenty in Christ, and under His direction. He knows I don't need to feel I'm doing something 'popular' but His calling is enough. (Janice)
gonefishingnj@earthlink.net

 
At 9:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Admittedly this is off-topic - but I have a question for "Gentle Shepherd Ministries. I went to your site. You are a ministry of two women. Do you minister only to other women? If you minister to men do you disagree with Paul's teaching regarding women keeping silent in church? Do you speak in tongues? Do you allign with Pentecostal or AOG type groups?

 
At 10:57 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Threefold Cord, Sorry for the misunderstanding. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, said it might have been inserted. The blogger under yours has no zodiac sign or Chinese horoscope posted so there is a way to remove them. Maybe someone here can help you. I'm glad you didn't put them there, but I'd get them removed asap.

 
At 11:26 AM, Anonymous eltigre said...

there is little I could add to the already insightful comments from those who, like the Bereans--"SEARCHED THE SCRIPTURES DAILY"
WARREN IT SEEMS, IS FOR ANYTHING FOR UNITY& PRODUCTIVITY.size is an indication of "successs" HE CONSTANTLY CONTRADICTS HIMSELF THROUGHOUT HIS WORKS.much of his work, if carefully examined , is of the pop psycology he says he is against.THINK!!!! WATERING DOWN THE GOSPEL & INTRODUCING HUMAN IDEAS WILL NEVER REPLACE TRUTH & WILL BE SHOWN TO PRODUCE SELFISH, WEAK CHRISTIANS. WHATS THE NEXT "THING" TO COME ALONG?
its the same GENERIC strategy Graham, Robert Shuller, Pat Robertson &other apostates use. WHEN THE WORLD LOVES SOME THING& IS POPULAR I THINK THE CHRISTIAN SHOULD BE CAUTIOUS AS TO WETHER THEY SHOULD LOVE IT TOO. AFTER ALL HITLER HAD A RELIGION,- IT WAS NATIONAL SOCIALIST GERMANY.I guess the fact that he made the trains run on time , built the Autobaun & employed everyone over looks his few weak points.

 
At 1:10 PM, Anonymous Brian said...

By the way Moody was critisized for bad grammar not false doctrine.

To the glory of God alone,
Brian Hedrick John 5:44

 
At 1:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

While we're at it, let's criticize Wesley, Luther, and Calvin, and many more. Some and more of what they believed and taught is today seen as unbiblical. They obviously had no worth to the kindom and should be condemned today!

Or, we can start being men and women of action, refusing to slander fellow believers just because they aren't doing it our way. Instead, imagine a church that stood by each other, that loved as Christ loved, that practiced teaching and living mercy and grace, and that were more concerned with how they show Christ to the world rather than making sure that everything is done exactly to the letter of the law.

So what if Rick Warren doesn't ask me before he speaks. I'd still rather the second option.

By the way, no one seems to be answering Dr. Friedeman's question. It's not about boasting, but to criticize without actually participating in the work of the gospel is somewhat hypocrytical. We could turn this forum into an encouragement for one another to see what and where we're each effecting an unbelieving world.

Myself, I participate in a ministry to the homeless, and in the pro-life cause and youth evangelism. How about you?

 
At 2:23 PM, Blogger Marsha said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 3:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Keep in mind what the problem is.
It's Warren and others like him training people in being part of the "one world system". Melding minds, religions, governments. It's about Systems thinking.
Just as Outcome Based Education is to Total Quality Management is to Warren-type training in churches. People are being dumbed-down. Trained to tolerate all but intolerance. Unity in Diversity. Perhaps Warrenism is just a way to get people trained in systems thinking with all the other stuff as distractions. Diaprax - practicing the Dialectic.

 
At 4:33 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Posted at amazon.com


Universalism Fulfilling Bible Prophecy, June 26, 2004
Reviewer: Eva Tew McInnis (Eight Mile, Alabama USA) - See all my reviews
Rick Warren is clearing a path to Universalism and end time prophecy by perverting the word of God. This is a dangerous decent into tolerated liberalism. He glowingly quotes a New Age book by Gary Thomas, entitled Sacred Pathways. The subtitle is "Discover Your Soul's Path to God." There can be no acceptable excuse for the presence of this religious garbage. Look at this full two-paragraph quote from The Purpose Driven Life.

"In his book, Sacred Pathways, Gary identifies nine of the ways people draw near to God: Naturalists are most inspired to love God out-of-doors, in natural settings. Sensates love God with their senses and appreciate beautiful worship services that involve their sight, taste, smell, and touch, not just their ears. Traditionalists draw closer to God through rituals, liturgies, symbols, and unchanging structures. Ascetics prefer to love God in solitude and simplicity. Activists love God through confronting evil, battling injustice, and working to make the world a better place. Caregivers love God by loving others and meeting their needs. Enthusiasts love God through celebrations. Contemplatives love through adoration. Intellectuals love God by studying with their minds. (Sacred Pathways, by Gary Thomas, pp. 22-29.)

"There is no 'one-size-fits-all' approach to worship and friendship with God. One thing is certain: You don't bring glory to God by trying to be someone he never intended you to be. God wants you to be yourself. 'That's the kind of people the Father is out looking for; those who are simply and honestly themselves before him in their worship.' (John 4:23, The Message.)" (The Purpose Driven Life, by Rick Warren, p. 103.)

Rick himself dares to suggest, "There is no 'one-size-fits-all' approach to worship and friendship with God." That's raw heresy. He further states, "God wants you to be yourself." This certainly fits the New Age psychological propaganda which sells easily with the unregenerate masses. Remember, the Devil tricks people using mostly truth mixed with a "little lie" which will lead most folks to damnation and hell.

Gary Thomas freely establishes where the inspiration for his book was derived. It came from a "spirit guide" named Philemon that gave it to Carl Jung, a noted humanistic psychologist. Here is the quote from Gary's book,

"Carl Jung developed four profiles to describe human nature. (These profiles have been formulated by Isabel Briggs Myers in the popular Myers Briggs test.) First, we approach reality either as an extrovert, who is most at home in the social world, or as an introvert, who prefers to dwell in the inner world. Second, we register input as either a sensing person, using the five senses, or an intuitive person, using the imagination. Third, we organize and arrange date either as a thinking person, who uses logic and the intellect, or as a feeling person who arranges data according to how it affects people and relates to human values. Finally, we arrange our outer reality as either a judging person, who is orderly, controlling and managing, or a perceptive person, who is spontaneous and flexible. Combinations of these four profiles can create sixteen different personality types, and the Myers Briggs test is designed to separate these types." (Transcend, by Martin Kelsey, p. 122. As printed in Sacred Pathways, by Gary Thomas, p. 21.)

This kind of marketing inspired theological babble is having an incredible impact upon once-great spiritual leaders and churches. The only way to God's salvation is being "born again" through the Blood of Jesus Christ. No person can bring their sinful, unrepentant and self-guided self into the family of the born again. The body of Jesus Christ is one body, baptized unto that body by the transforming power of His Holy Spirit. The soul is the seat of the Adamic nature and that nature is hopelessly lost and totally incapable of redeeming itself. It must be renounced, forsaken, and blood washed or it is lost to the eternal flames of hell.
I write this out of God's love for you - Please wake up and pray for the Lord Jesus Christ to come into your heart and forgive your sins before it's too late.


End-Time Deception, July 25, 2004
Reviewer: Todd Thompson "Todd Thompson" (Palestine, Texas) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
When Jesus said most people on earth will be lost, He did not temper that by saying...except all churchgoers, or ....except everyone who reads popular writers. Mt.7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and MANY there be which go in thereat:

You must realize that the world's system has church.

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it.

15 Beware of false prophets, (where are false prophets but in the church) which come to you in sheep?s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

When one reviewer said this could only happen in America, he was probably correct. America is covered by a glass bubble of false security and unreality brought on by materialism. As long as you think this is just a big happy christian society, you will swallow whatever is offered to you. You devour the latest bestseller but can't seem to figure out Proverbs.
The adversary is vastly smarter than you and you have absolutely no chance against him unless you understand the BIBLE.

Not only is this book about consuming individuals for the benefit of Church Big Business, it is part of the end-time plan to offer up millions of softened and conformed persons to further submit theirs minds and wills to the next world order. The author talks down to the readers saying that their identity is found in church attendance, and says that the church is their "source." And sets a clear division between church leaders and you, making you an ever-so-necessary cog in their wheel.

The Word says that most people will be lost. What sets YOU apart? What makes you different from the church crowd. The carnal world has church. How do you know you are not part of the majority that will be lost?
Ex 23:2 Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil;
Lu 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

If you are a student of history, you will recognize, in this book, the methods of socialism. The methods of socialism are to convince you to give up your individual power, your individual confidence, your individual initiative. So much for helping you find your purpose...that's just the lure...that's why it's called DECEPTION. This end-time plan cannot trust or permit your individual power, ministry or anointing. Your individual power, initiative and anointing is the enemy of this dark philosphy.

The devil's plans are massive, they are based upon militarily sound principles and executed over centuries with patient expertise. If you refuse to think critically and/or engage your discernment you will be deceived and lost, end of story.

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

If you refuse to separate yourself from the crowd by discernment and holiness, you have absolutely no chance. Get back in the Word, fight for wisdom and understanding and discernment.

 
At 4:52 PM, Anonymous tom montali said...

God's word says:

Rev. 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

note: "my" people....

 
At 6:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tom,

Are you saying that Rick Warren is "the Beast"?

If so, it's a wonder why Agape Press won't put an opposing opinion. How about, "I don't agree with Mr. Warren and think he may be misled." or "I think Mr. Warren needs to talk more about repentance." But calling him "the Beast" is a little harsh.

I hope that I'm not judged the same way when someone disagrees with me.

 
At 7:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm curious. Do people like Billy Graham, Robert Schuler, Rick Warren believe in a literal Hell? When the Bible warns about the Beast and all the terrible things that are going to happen to people and to the earth do they believe it? Or are they Preterists? Do they think all those terrible things already took place in the first century AD? Do they believe we are living in a post-trib. world? If anybody can answer me please do. I think there are probably a lot of closet Preterists around.

 
At 7:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let the sparks fly!
I pray that there is much iron-sharpening going on as these posts are made and read. I pray that those who accuse recognize where that spirit comes from, and those who fear also recognize that all things are judged by the Word of God, so we don't have to do so in our fallible selves.

ONLY fear the Lord,
and serve Him
in TRUTH
with ALL your heart,
for consider
how great things
HE HAS DONE
for you!
1Samuel 12:24
~
In everything give thanks,,,
so, THANKS Paul Proctor for the heads-up!

 
At 8:19 PM, Anonymous BOBBY SIMS said...

THANK GOD FOR PAUL PROCTOR, JAMES SUNDQUIST, BERIT KJOS, DAVE HUNT, T.A. MCMAHON, AND OTHER FAITHFUL BEREANS WHO WILL BE WATCHMEN ON THE WALL, SOUNDING THE TRUMPET TO A SLEEPING CHURCH, IN THE FACE OF TODAY'S BOMBARDMENT OF DECEPTION! IT'S NOT A MATTER OF NOT CARING FOR RICK WARREN AS A PERSON, BUT WHAT HE'S DOING WITH THE PROLIFIC PLACE OF EXPOSURE AND INFLUENCE IN THE CHRISTIAN WORLD. TO COMPARE ANY "JOE CHRISTIAN" WHO WOULD RESPOND ON HERE AS IF THEY WERE HOLDING SWAY OVER THE LIVES THAT RICK WARREN IS, IS THOUGHTLESS, AND INCOMPARABLE. THE BIBLE SAYS FOR US TO NOT ALL BE MASTERS, FOR WE SHALL RECEIVE THE GREATER CONDEMNATION. IF WE OFFEND NOT IN WORD, WE'LL BE ABLE TO NOT OFFEND. JESUS SAID THAT TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN, MUCH IS REQUIRED. RICK WARREN IS NOT EXEMPT FROM SCRUTINY IN HIS UNBIBLICAL METHODS, BUT TO BE SCRUTINIZED THE MORE BECAUSE OF THE PLACE HE HOLDS CURRENTLY, FOR BETTER OR WORSE. IF EVEN THE APOSTLE PAUL COULD BE EXAMINED FOR SCRIPTURAL ACCURACY BY THE BEREANS, WHY SHOULD THIS, OR ANY OTHER MAN BE EXCLUDED FROM THE BIBLICAL TEST OF THE SPIRITS?????I'M VERY SUSPICIOUS OF A MOVEMENT IN THE CHRISTIAN WORLD THAT'S SO COMFORTABLE TO THE LOST. JOHN THE BAPTIST WOULD ROLL OVER IN HIS CAMEL HAIR IF HE KNEW WHAT WAS AT HAND TODAY IN THE NAME OF "EVANGELISM". I'D RATHER SEE ONE GENUINE CONVERT TAUGHT OF THE STRAIGHT AND NARROW, THAN 20,000 MISINFORMED AUXILLARY BELIEVERS GOING TO THERE IRREVERENT GATHERINGS WITH HEADBANGING MUSIC AND BUTTON DOWN HAWAII 5-0 SHIRTS, LOOSE FITTING DOCKER SHORTS, AND FLOWER POWER SANDALS. BIG BUILDINGS AND LARGE CROWDS DO NOT A CONVERT MAKE. BCS.

 
At 10:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bobby Said "I'D RATHER SEE ONE GENUINE CONVERT TAUGHT OF THE STRAIGHT AND NARROW, THAN 20,000 MISINFORMED AUXILLARY BELIEVERS GOING TO THERE IRREVERENT GATHERINGS WITH HEADBANGING MUSIC AND BUTTON DOWN HAWAII 5-0 SHIRTS, LOOSE FITTING DOCKER SHORTS, AND FLOWER POWER SANDALS."

Wow! What a statement. I can feel the hate! You're only steps away from the dark side. Let it all out so your transformation will be complete.

On a side note. If Jesus had your attitude, we'd all be in hell.

Thanks be to God for the real Jesus. Maybe we could all learn something from Him.

 
At 3:23 AM, Anonymous tom montali said...

to anonymous:

No, nowhere did I say that Rick Warren is the beast. He certainly is not. But he does just so happen to be the person leading this apostate movement toward the fulfillment of biblical prophecy.

Rev 17:3
"So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

Dan. 7:23
"Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces."

The woman is the harlot church (as opposed to the pure bride of Christ... Rev. 19:8) and she is seated on the "beast", which is the one-world government (described by Daniel here) of the end of the church age. This religious/political union (i.e. P.E.A.C.E. plan) is the world system described as 'Babylon'.

John recorded the cry from heaven....come out of (her) 'Babylon'....

(Rev 18:4)
"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

The call is to "my" people. Jesus says....

John 10: 27-28
" My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

You won't stop or fix this. If you love Jesus come out and stop wasting time. Warn those who can "hear".

Heb. 3:15
"While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation."


What about those, as in this case, Rick Warren et. al., who are responsible?

We simply go to the word of God, where the apostle has already instructed the church. Paul issued a stern rebuke to these.

Gal. 1:8-9

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

"Let him be accursed", says the apostle Paul. Twice. This gospel is to be defended, not a man. The gospel is not from man, but by divine revelation.

Gal. 1 vs.12 "For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ."

Elijah was not afraid of Ahab, I might remind some.

Jeremiah saw this day also....

Jer. 51
vs. 6 "Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD's vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence."

vs. 45 " My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce anger of the LORD."

Psalm 12

vs.6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
vs.7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

 
At 12:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nothing but the blood of Jesus.Anything else I'm doing,I'm doing to please the Lord.I believe in doctrine and the Almighty God.God teaches us in His Word how to please him and thank God Almighty for his blessed Lamb.I have repented and left my sins at the cross.Glory be to God.

 
At 2:23 PM, Blogger Threefold Cord said...

Probably time to get a new topic...but I've posted my thoughts at my site anyway. Come visit...but leave your anger here!

 
At 7:22 PM, Anonymous Marcel said...

Diversions and delusions abound in these last days. Those without Jesus as their solid foundation are swept away by the latest wave ,and there are more and greater waves of satan on the way.The purification begins. What amazes me is the silence of my fellow Christian's to the arrogance of one who divides up God's covenant land given to the descendants of Abraham with his 'personal vision',Road Map.
It seem this evil has been excused ,overlooked and it's seriousness ignored by the chuch along with this wolf in sheeps clothing numerous apostate messages. #1 allah and God are the same #2 freedom is God's gift to humanity. Does George get a free pass and Rick is easy pickings ?
As a 'supposed' Christian isn't this president an accountable 'brother' ?

 
At 10:53 PM, Anonymous Joel said...

Well it may be time to move on but I just have to register my protest at one certain "ananymous" commentator who dared to compare Warren with some of the truely GIANTS of the faith - Wesley, Luther, and Calvin - men who believed in separation and holiness in the strictest sense - something that Warren knows not of! Theologically, doctrinally speaking, I DARE you to study the works of these men and find out just how SHALLOW the teachings of today's teachers are in comparison. I'm a baptist, so I can assure you that I don't agree with any of these three men on some doctrines, but I hold them in deep reverence for their works. Study the works of John Bunyan, who lived in the 17th century, and you'll never be the same. God give us more men like them!

 
At 6:48 AM, Anonymous Repentant sinner said...

On one hand I have Gods' truth.
On the other hand I have Warrens; truth.
Let's see, God, Warren. God, Warren.
Hmmmmmmmmmm. . . .let's see what scripture says.
"Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth."

Could Jesus have meant Warren ?

 
At 1:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rick Warren Teams Up With New-Age Guru Ken Blanchard!

This is a Special Report.
>From www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com

Apr 19, 2005

While Rick Warren is gearing up to train a billion people, unbeknownst to many he has also been teamed up with New Age and contemplative promoter, Ken Blanchard, for some time now. According to a new biography on Rick Warren, A Life With Purpose written by George Mair, Rick Warren has solicited the services of Ken Blanchard to aid him in training leaders: "Rick taps the best and most famous to help train church leaders to be like Jesus. He has hired Ken Blanchard .... to come to Saddleback to help train people how to be effective leaders." p. 193

In light of knowing who Ken Blanchard is, this is shocking and devastating news for the church!

There is countless evidence to show that Blanchard sits on the New Age/mystical/contemplative bandwagon. Blanchard believes in the benefits and use of mantra meditation, yoga and has no trouble borrowing from Buddhism.

Here are just a few examples:

Wrote the foreword to Jim Ballard's Mind Like Water
Wrote the foreword to Franz Metcalf's What Would Buddha Do At Work?
Is on the Front Cover of Corporate Mystic-(Listen)
Is on the Back Cover of Deepak Chopra's 7 Spiritual Laws of Success
Jim Ballard, a staunch New Ager, and a colleague of The Ken Blanchard Companies
Wrote the Foreword to Ellen Ladd's (clairvoyant) book, Death and Letting Go.
Blanchard makes no apology when he says much can be gained from Buddhism. He and his wife both encourage the practice of yoga (p.11) and mantra meditation.

For those who do not find the words of an unofficial biographer (Mair) linking Rick Warren with Blanchard convincing enough,Ken Blanchard, Rick Warren and Bill Hybels (Willow Creek) have become team players at the Lead Like Jesus conferences and the Leadership Summit Conferences, which take place across North America. The three also have an audio set they co-authored together. Incidentally, Rick Warren sits on the Board of Blanchard's Lead Like Jesus organization along with Ken Blanchard, Mark Victor Hansen (Chicken Soup of the Soul), John Maxwell, Bill Hybels, and Laurie Beth Jones.

Did Rick Warren know of Blanchard's sympathies when he brought him in to help at Saddleback? Of course he did. And do you think that Rick Warren and Ken Blanchard are going to train their "billion" soldiers for Christ how to practice New Age mysticism and learn how to go into altered states of consciousness? You bet. And that is definitely something to be concerned about.

"...they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. And for this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false ..." II Thessalonians 2: 10-11

Lighthouse Trails Research Project

Deborah Dombrowski

editor@lighthousetrails.com
For further information about George Mair's biography on Rick Warren and Ken Blanchard's connections with Rick Warren, click here.


Please feel free to distribute, copy and forward this information.


Deborah Dombrowski

Lighthouse Trails Publishing

www.lighthousetrails.com

www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com

 
At 2:09 PM, Anonymous Marcel said...

Rick Warren ,the false teacher is easy to point out and pile on to ,but what about the hero of decieved American Christian's ?
The weak,corrupt and backslid Church is too impure to touch this. Their souls are entangled by divided loyalty to two Kingdoms.
The doubleminded Christians days are numbered.The warning of Jesus that no man can serve two masters will no longer be ignore.
Do you align youself with the one who divides Israel and has therefore made himself an enemy of God ?

Whose Word Will Stand?
We have the leader of the one and only 'superpower' dictating Israel's terms of surrender and retreat for his Road Map ,all for his new world order where Islam is rewarded and the lowly Jew is kicked out and around.
Will this arrogant fool usurp the throne and agenda of God with His Israel, or will George and his supposed great empire be made a spectacle ,an astonishment as ancient Egypt was to remind men that there is One greater than George who rules in the heavens ?

 
At 2:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

For Warren it's about the MONEY.
It has to be, or he would stop this money making machine of purpose driven mania and REPENT!
Tell the Truth, do we need another Jabezmania?

 
At 3:04 PM, Anonymous curious said...

I think it's about power.

 
At 3:05 PM, Anonymous curious said...

And control

 
At 8:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'll answer the question directly and post under anonymous so feel questionable about it. Let's see. I am raising my kids with Christian principles. I serve my spouse as the Lord would have me do. I try to evangelise by leaving tracts in places that people pick will most likey pick them up and read them. I donate Christian books to the library. I support a little girl overseas. I sometimes write to imprisoned Christians. I also will write to officials asking for their release. I donate Christmas care packages. I teach in Bible school.I donate clothes to the needy. I try to be kind and helpful to people. There is a little old lady I go to see sometimes although I haven't see her in quite a while.I All of a sudden I'm feeling convicted.I need to see her again soon. I don't do great things but God uses the little people too. Stopping to open the door for someone or helping a little old lady to her car is a show of love.My spouse washes my hair for me sometimes or fixes a nice meal for me when I'm feeling low or just to please me.I do the same for my spouse.I'm getting off track. I try to encourage others in their walk with the Lord.I just do things I know the Lord would have me do. As I grow older and less busy with the kids I hope to be the kind of person who will visit more with the elderly and the sick.I fail in all sorts of ways but I pushing on to please the Lord.

 
At 2:26 AM, Anonymous Stephen Hall ,SYDNEY said...

Dear Matt Fieldeman.

Forget Warren, what am I doing?,no place to boast here of the fact that, like the apostle,I carry some 'street-preaching' wounds in my body! But then Rick might too, from all the 'holy-hugging' back-slapping and 'high fiving'in his meetings.
So thanks to all those guys who have said,just about all that can be said, of an expose' on the Purpose Driven Lie (sorry Paul Proctor).. Life, and your discernment on the teachings of (Pastor?) Rick Warren.

My dear brother, your understanding appears to be at the least, K- infant, at the worst completely compromised. I would say along with our beloved brother St.Paul(KJV) O foolish Matt, who has bewitched (that is, to smite with an evil eye - witchcaft/occult curse) you?, me thinks it may be a a purpose driven devil from Saddleback!

Did the church in Saddleback, California start "in the Spirit"? Like the early church of the Acts of the Apostles (Acts 2:4; 38) Are the nine gifts of the Holy Ghost (1 Cor. 12:8-10) operating there? Or ceased (like most'ceasationalist churches'... most probably. Seems no charismata (er gift) of 'discerning of spirits' Or the 'body' would soon discern that this stuff is 'off' the word and not 'of' it. (2 John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.) Come on Christian, the unction is given to function in empowering Christ's church to discern the Truth, and no man need to teach you. This is an antichrist spirit, a religious devil masquerading as the new paradigm for doing church!. Get back to 'Acts 2: 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 And fear came upon every soul:...' At least then you can give a good account of yourself on the Day of Judgement!
These are the last days of seducing spirits and doctrines of devils, religious men having a 'form of godliness' but denying the power thereof, from such TURN AWAY! This is ONE of the most serious heresies -from-hell ever to arise in the modern church. It denies the power of the Holy Ghost to change man and substitutes(ante)another false science of pyschology to change mankind.
Gal.3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Please email me at magnamizer@ozemail.com.au if I can help you.

 
At 7:16 PM, Anonymous Me said...

Stephen Hall,

You write an insulting post and then ask if you can help? Are you being serious?

I always question those who use the Bible to insult and then say "I'm doing this for your own good."

Just me I guess.

 
At 10:36 AM, Anonymous frmdeath2life said...

And your question to the Apostle Paul regarding his insults would be?
Here is a site that gives what might be a reaction in the Postmodern church to Paul's letter to the "foolish" Galatians. Sad but oh, so true. Lord, give us a desire for the truth of your WORD and make us stop putting our trust in men and methods! Open eyes and ears and let those who belong to you be deceived no longer. Amen.
http://www.sacredsandwich.com/bohemianletters.htm

 
At 11:54 AM, Anonymous me said...

frmdeath2life,

But the problem is that I say one person is being more like Paul for his emphasis on spreading the gospel and not having faith without action and you say someone is being more like Paul by using the scripture to insult (which I say Paul never did, insulting is simply saying I'm smarter or better than you). The question is that we both see those like Paul as different people. Who is right?

 
At 12:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you're looking for facts to share with others of how Rick Warrens movement is destroying our churches, then check out the following sites. Yes churches are getting huge with this movement, but at the cost of terribly abusing the body of Christ and God's pure Word.

http://www.woodandsteel.net/pd-diversion.html

http://www.biblebb.com/files/tonyqa/tc03-148.htm

http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/2003/1-purpose.htm#3

http://www.pawcreek.org/articles/endtimes/ThePurposeDrivenLifeGoldenCalf.htm

http://www.twincityfellowship.com/cic/articles/issue80.htm

http://www.biblebb.com/files/purpose.htm

 
At 4:23 PM, Anonymous frmdeath2life said...

Me Says, who is right? The WHOLE counsel of God. You misunderstand that the issue here is not how we view the Apostle Paul but how we interperet the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul was VERY grieved at people continually perverting the true Gospel.
Works with a faith that is based on lies are just as dead as a faith without works. Was Paul saying he was smarter or better than anyone in this scripture from Galatians 1:6-10? I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one WE preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say AGAIN: If ANYONE is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be ACCURSED.
For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I WOULD NOT BE A SERVANT OF CHRIST.

The Gospel of Christ is our need for a Savior, not a Purpose.

The Gospel of Christ is having our offending sinful nature removed not our felt needs met.

The Gospel of Christ is to be hated by the world not loved by it.

The Gospel of Christ is dying to self not gratifying it.

The Gospel of Christ is to share the offending truth of the Cross not remove it's offense.

The Gospel of Christ is understanding that repentance means being crushed by our sin and turning from our old ways, not simply about changing your mind.

The Gospel of Christ is us needing God, not Him needing us.

I take no pride or joy in saying that these are the elementary teachings in the Scriptures and men who claim to teach in the precious name of Jesus Christ our Lord... do not understand them. To repeat the words of Paul, " I am astonished." And come quickly Lord Jesus!

 
At 4:26 PM, Anonymous bookman said...

very well said anonymous,,I cant tell you how many times I have said the same thing to people,,check Rick Warren out,,the never do,,,and to even suggest such a thing to them seems to make them angry,,but whats wrong with checking a guy out thats espousing a completly new way of doing church,,after all the scriptures do say for us not to believe every spirit but to test them,,with Gods word,,this being the case,,,would it not be dangerous not to do what the Bible says??,,the answer,,of course,,you test them to see if they are spiritually blind,,if you dont ,,and they are,,you will fall into the same ditch that they do,,,at least thats what someone said that I believe knew what he was talking about,,so why this almost fanatical resistance to checking Rick Warren out,,,to the committed it seems almost like questioning God,,and I believe I can state this with the utmost confidence,,Rick Warren will make a very poor God

 
At 10:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

John 3:16 says,that God so loved the world that He sent His only beggotton Son,that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. It is God's will that no one perish; but that that may come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.
Let's agree in prayre: that the wholde Body of Christ preach the full Gospel as Scriptures states; not a mans way! How can they hear unless we tell them about the TRUTH? On Lord, convict those who preach a warm and fuzzy Gospel! Thank you Lord for your grace. RC

 
At 4:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why do you post any article from a man that left his children behind and did not see them or support them for over 16 years? A man that was unfaithful to his wife many times, who beat his wife for 9 years and his response to this is that there are no police reports. Well the reason there were no police reports was because every time I tried to call the police he ripped the phone off the wall and would not allow me to leave the apartment. Yet he states it never happened because there are no police reports, but our divorce states in it that it is because of spousal abuse. And he knows what he did, in fact once while in jail for an anit abortion demonstration he decided to confide in one of his fellow cell mates and told him how he had treated me all those years and the man responded that he was an animal. He later told me this and then later told me that had I not asked him to leave he would have killed me. I know this to be true due to the violence getting increasingly worse throughout the years. Not only does he have a felony conviction for insurance fraud, while he was out on a date and had the nerve to meet the girls father, while his wife and 2 toddlers’ were at home, I know because the detective read me her deposition, he proclaims himself to be a prophet of God and that I made him hit me. That I am only looking for sympathy and that I am evil.

All I want is the truth, I am tired of being made to be the bad guy when I was the responsible one who worked to provide for our children because he refused to do so. I asked him to stay in Florida so he could be a part of their lives but he did not want to. I paid airline fares so they could see him, with the promise that he would pay half, which he never did. And yet he is made out to be this wonderful person a person who literally threatened me with physical harm if I came to our son’s wedding party. My daughter and I had plane tickets and had to cancel them due to the threat, nice person don’t you think.

Here are the facts, don't take my word for it, here is right from the department of revenue in the state of PA:

Your Amount Due

as of Thursday December 15,2005

Case Id: 392105754

Wetzel, Diane L. vs Wetzel, Stephen M. SR

Please contact your Domestic Relations Office for Order Details about your Support Order 00626 DR 2003. The order effective date is Saturday , September 13, 2003.

The current account balance on your case as of Thursday December 15,2005 is $14,184.23.

So not only did he have affairs, he beat me up for 9 years, he choose not to be a part of his children's lives at all and I raised them alone. But instead he is made to be a prominent person because he put together a website and newsletter and rather than be a father to his first 2 children, he decided to fight abortion? Well didn't he in a sense abort his own children? He gets arrested for insurance fraud and can not keep a job? Yet I worked and God provided for his children because he refused to and still refuses to. So why am I being called evil? I was responsible, I did everything for the children and I gave them a home. People out there need to know the truth about the real Steve Wetzel. But they are not getting it, so here it is. He can deny it all he wants, but God knows, I know and the children know. He can not deny that and when he stands before God and all his works will be as filthy rags.
This is the real Steve Wetzel who does not want anyone to know what he really is. Who put me on the family tree as excommunicated as if I were catholic, which I am not. But I was not the one who hurt him, all I did was the right thing, I took care of the children.
He can say all he wants that he paid his support, but the truth is he did not and as of today I get $32.31 a week, only 3% of what his support payment was and we are still going to court over this and have been for over 16 years because of his constant continuances and the way he plays the system. There is the real Steve Wetzel. Naturally he will deny everything, but God knows the truth and he can not hide from him forever can he?

I am sure it will eventually catch up with him, but for now all I want is for the truth to be known.

Thank you.

 

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