Friday, July 07, 2006

Muslim? Mormon? Evangelical?

Americans perceptions might be understandable concerning Islam. And a Mormon for president might be a tough journey for Mitt Romney. But what is with this public perception of evangelicals and the Oval Office?

12 Comments:

At 3:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It certainly can't come as a surprise that 21% wouldn't vote for an Evengelical - from a Presidential standpoint, it is evident that the label Evangelical doesn't mean a thing in terms of assessing a person's system of beliefs and standards. Given my experience with Evangelicals, the small sampling of Presidents is actually quite accurate in terms of everyday people - Evengelical means nothing, unless you look at it from a doctrinal or religious organization standpoint. That is even scarier because when you carefully analyze it, you realize what a close-minded and foolish interpretation they have of Christian history and doctrine.

 
At 3:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

True Believers vs. "Evangelicals"= More research vs. Less hype. Even a little research into Mormon doctrine reveals very deep reasons why all people should be warned that all is not as it seems! A basic doctrine of Mormonism is their "Plan for America" --which is that the Mormon Church Cult will rule America as a Theocracy in accordance with THEIR beliefs. These include legalized Polygamy and Blood Atonement (killing of those who desert their Temple Covenants). They aspire to live the "United Order", a glorified form of religious Communism. Members may not question the PROPHET; "if he tells you that water runs uphill, you are to believe it." All of this is under a shining veneer of "goodness and light." Mormons believe that there are many Gods, and that they, in fact will become one of them if they keep all the laws (6,000+) of Mormonism. This means that they are a Pagan, Polytheistic religion very far removed from what they claim to be, (they only masquerade as Christians.) Christianity is Monotheistic. ONE GOD. One of their past church Presidents claimed that it was a sin to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ! If Mitt Romney appears to be "too perfect", we can thank the multimillion dollar P-R Dept. of the Mormon Church for having manufactured his image! We have a couple hundred Mormon relatives, all on my husband's side of the family, that we love. He is the only one in his entire family ancestry, ever, to "wake up and smell the coffee" over 20 years ago. We are ex-Temple Mormons, and we know whereof we speak. Please, friends, do some RESEARCH! we are meant to know the Truth, not to live by our emotions. Truth will keep us free personally and as the Greatest Nation on Earth.

 
At 7:00 PM, Blogger Matt Friedeman said...

Anon 1:

Well, "evangelical" is a bit like "Christian." It can be understood positively but, because of the lousy conduct of some (usually high-profile types) it can be seen quite negatively.

I think, in the folks I associate with, it is quite positive. I hope they think the same of me.

Matt

 
At 8:24 PM, Anonymous JBryan said...

I'd like to respond to the comments made by anonymous # 2:

I was deeply involved in the Mormon Church for 15 years. I was a missionary and held several other positions. I left Mormonism after finding out that it was a hoax. I consider myself a very strong critic of Mormonism and of the Church leadership in Salt Lake City.

Having said that, I find some of your statements about Mormonism misleading.

1. There is no "Plan for America". Mormons want to be part of Fundamentalist Christianity and are willing to change to make this a reality. The Mormon temple ceremony was changed in 1990 and one of the major changes was taking out parts that mocked Christian ministers. Their prophet, Gordon Hinckley has turned the doctrine of "god once being a man" into "something that we [Mormons} don't know much about".

2. Polygamy and blood atonement- Man oh man, do they wish Brigham Young had kept his mouth shut about these things! Those who REALLY want to understand Mormonism should understand this:

In the 21st Century Mormonism is all about PUBLIC RELATIONS (I think we can agree on this one). Polygamy will NEVER be brought back. As we speak the Mormon Church is pushing it's members to get the ant-gay marriage amendment passed. They are so serious about this that one BYU professor who dared to disagree on this point was fired. Mormons want one man/one woman marriage...nothing else.

As for blood atonement...they just want to forget that it ever happened.

3. Mormons talk about "living the United Order" but it's nothing more than talk. What many Mormons do is get involved with get rich quick schemes. Go through Utah and you'll find some of the most materialistic people you have ever met.

4. You wrote "One of their past church Presidents claimed that it was a sin to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ!"

No, it was Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, not any Mormon Church president. He's been dead for 20 years and most of what he said in this area is ignored by the new generation of Mormons.

In conclusion, Mormonism is a religion that evolves to suit the times. Right now it wants to be seen as just another Christian Church. I agree with you...it's not. But I just had to respond on the points that you wrote. Glad that you made it "out of the cult".

 
At 10:38 PM, Blogger LDS Patriot said...

Clear evidence religious bigotry abounds in America; truly the ugly & disgraceful side of the American body politic.

Consider this article by Cal Thomas:

If an ambulance hits me, I care less where or how the driver worships than I do about his sense of direction to the nearest hospital. It troubles me not that a Mormon might be president.

It does trouble me a great deal that so many people would think a person's faith - whether one shares it or not - should be the only reason to deny someone the presidency. Perhaps if Romney decides to run it won't matter too much of that 37 percent, any more than it eventually did during the 1960 campaign when the issue was Catholicism.

http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=36&url_article_id=16929&url_subchannel_id=&change_well_id=2

LDS Patriot
http://ldspatriot.wordpress.com/

 
At 8:58 AM, Blogger Matt Friedeman said...

LDSP:

Actually, those are my sentiments exactly. Given the choice between Romney - whether he be Muslim or Mormon - and the "evangelical" Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter...well, I am going with Romney no matter how distasteful his religious sentiments. Not that I wouldn't want to hear how those sentiments meshed with his governance worldview...

Matt

 
At 4:52 PM, Anonymous JBryan said...

I have to disagree with LDS patriot. I don't think that questioning the beliefs of a man who might become President of the United States is religious bigotry.

Some examples:

Until 1990 the LDS Temple endowment had the following exchange between an actor playing the part of Satan and an actor playing the part of a Christian minister:

"LUCIFER: I am the God of this world.

ADAM: You, the God of this world?

LUCIFER: Yes, what do you want?

ADAM: I am looking for messengers.

LUCIFER: Oh, you want someone to preach to you. You want religion, do
you? I will have preachers here presently.

(Lucifer turns his head as a sectarian minister approaches.)

LUCIFER: Good Morning sir!

SECTARIAN MINISTER: Good morning!

(The preacher turns and looks into the camera.)

SECTARIAN MINISTER: A fine congregation!

LUCIFER: Yes, they are a very good people. They are concerned about
religion. Are you a preacher?

SECTARIAN MINISTER: I am.

LUCIFER: Have you been to college and received training for the
ministry?

SECTARIAN MINISTER: Certainly! A man cannot preach unless has been
trained for the ministry.

LUCIFER: Do you preach the orthodox religion?

SECTARIAN MINISTER: Yes, that is what I preach.

LUCIFER: If you will preach your orthodox religion to these people, and
convert them, I will pay you well.

SECTARIAN MINISTER: I will do my best.

(Lucifer guides the preacher to Adam and Eve, who stand nearby.)

LUCIFER: Here is a man who desires religion. He is very much exercised,
and seems to be sincere.

(As Lucifer presents the preacher to Adam and Eve he steps back and
observes the ensuing conversation. The preacher is made to sound
sincere, although misguided and credulous. Adam appears humble, faithful
and immovable in his determination to serve God. He is not swayed by the
preacher, and is astounded by the doctrines espoused by the preacher.)"

As an Mormon I was taught that all Christian religions were "corrupt" and that their creeds were "lies about God". In short, Christianity was an "apostate religion" and Mormonism was the "One True Church".

My question would be, does Gov. Romney support his Churches position? Does he hold that Christian ministers are agents of Satan?

2. The Mormon Church has a very racist past for which they have never apologized. Will Gov. Romney renounce the statements of past Mormon Church Presidents like Brigham Young (who called black people "brut beasts") and others? Does he think it was wrong for his church to withhold it's priesthood from black people until 1978? (That's right...1978. Not 1878)

When John Kennedy ran for President, he gave a speech that defined his personal beliefs as a Catholic and how those beliefs would affect his presidency.

In Mitt Romney wants to taken seriously, he needs to address some hard questions about a faith that most Americans know very little about. It may turn out that he's just a "social Mormon" who, while keeping the faith, is not all that zealous about it.

I think most people will go for John McCain befoe they go with Mitt.

 
At 10:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is all about perception.

The the percentage who would not vote for a Muslim is not suprising for obvious reasons. Thats not to say there are no people of the Islamic faith who would make a good President. Im sure there are some out there....

I think most Americans are just ignorant about the Mormon faith.


When American's hear the word "evangelical Chrisitian", people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell instantly come to mind. Like it or not, those two blockheads have do nothing but tarnish the image of the evangelical community with the ridiculous comments that they are so famous for. You generally do not see leaders of the Jewish and Catholic faiths making jerks of themselves on major news outlets the way Falwell and Robertson do....

 
At 11:16 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

JBryan

I wish ex-mormons would find better things to do with their time than attempt to teach LDS doctrine.

How about instead of trying to espouse what "Mormons really believe" you focus more on your own beliefs and what your true intentions are?

Yes, JFK did speak about his faith and the Catholic Churches influence on his life, but he never had to "apologize" for any of the horific acts of the Catholic church throughout history!

And he sure didn't have to address any of the pedophile incidents that we now see rampant in the Catholic church as a result of celebacy.

Yet we expect Romney to have to respond to issues such as jBryan brought up?

Ridiculous!

If you think a man who is capable of being the president of the United States, as Romney is, would spend time answering petty questions about church history and doctrine or apologizing on behalf of the church, you are sorely mistaken.

I hope you don't wait for Mitt to resolve your concerns because that won't happen, you may want to look elsewhere to find solice for your restless soul.

What will likely happen if he is ever faced with the "hard questions" that you so eagerly anticipate, is that he will answer them simply and concisely and not waste any more time than need on pointless issues.

As for whether Gov. Romney is going to be the GOP's candidate for president in '08, I think it is more likely than we think.

Besides, the L.A. Times article left out one important detail, that is whether the 37% who "wouldn't vote for a Mormon" were Republican or Democrat.

It is pretty safe to assume that most democrats wouldn't vote for a Mormon no matter what....why?

Because they are Conservative!

Look at the good ol' red state of Utah!

The same 37% probably wouldn't vote for a conservative anybody from any religion!

Just another example of a poorly written and researched article that got printed in one of the nations most read newspaper.

Should that surpise us?

 
At 11:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

p.s. It looks like plenty of "Evangelicals" are turning out to support Romney....

http://www.evangelicalsformitt.org/

I believe conservative values are going to speak much louder than the many misconceptions held about his chosen religion.

 
At 11:31 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

p.s.s. Even a better summary of the L.A. Times article can be found here:

http://www.evangelicalsformitt.org/front_page/details_emerging_on_that_la_ti.php

 
At 1:40 PM, Anonymous JBryan said...

"Anonymous said...
JBryan

I wish ex-mormons would find better things to do with their time than attempt to teach LDS doctrine.

How about instead of trying to espouse what "Mormons really believe" you focus more on your own beliefs and what your true intentions are?"

Well, this is par for the course. Someone dares to bring some of the weird stuff LDS people believe (or used to believe?) and they are told to shut up about it.

No, I'm never going to stop telling people what this cult really believes. Yet if Romney were a Scientologist or a member of the Unification Church I would have the same approach.

Catholics have, for the most part, come to terms with their past. If Romey were a member of the Unification Church I bet you would want to know if he really thought Rev. Moon was Jesus Christ no matter how conservative he was. Yet Mormon beliefs have become some sort of sacred cow that NOBODY is allowed to be critical of.

Now, if Mitt is simply a "social Mormon" who goes to church on Sunday and just tries to live a good life, that's no big deal. But if he's a wild-eyed Ezra Taft Benson type, then we really don't need a man like that for presidnet.

 

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